Bert: You mentioned a number of interesting things – one of which is leading by example. I agree that this is so very important. I have a ten-year-old son. I try to live my life because I know he’s watching me and what I’m doing. To model that I think is very important. You mentioned that things are going in the wrong direction and that we have to turn it around. Talk to me about men raising boys to be men and how important that is to you and how it will help turn the marriage situation around.
Mr. Hardiman: I think it’s absolutely critical. I’ve been involved in a situation where I met with a young man for several years now – just mentoring and talking about issues of life. I think, at some point in time, marriage will be one of those big issues. Again, hopefully, a young man or boy will see his parents and learn so much of the positive ways to live in a marriage relationship. But that doesn’t always happen. We all make mistakes. I’m not saying that it’s a perfect situation in every home. It’s not perfect. It’s imperfect. But, especially those who follow biblical principles should be pursuing that healthy relationship all the time and acknowledging when we fall short because sometimes kids learn from our mistakes. Kids are pretty bright. Sometimes we think we can hide things from them or we just won’t mention it so they won’t get the “wrong impression”. They do see when things go wrong. They do pick up the wrong impression. There are young men who grow up to be violent because they saw violence in the home. That’s wrong. We need to not only model the right behavior but also admit that “I was wrong in that situation.” But I think that’s very critical. Something else that I think is very critical – because so many are brought up outside of those healthy married family relationships – we need to be mentoring even others. Perhaps through church and other organizations or just people seeing us live our daily lives. People are watching us all the time and we don’t even know they’re watching us. We need to be mindful of that.
The last thing I want to see is people who are not very good at being positive role models go out and try to tell someone else what to do. I see this all the time. I’ve seen people who’ve been through several divorces “Here’s how you need to handle that…” Well, wait a minute. They think that because they’ve failed so many time that now they know the right way to go. That may not be it. I’m not saying that people don’t make mistakes – they do. But as we grow and based on biblical principles – I think that is key – if we can help mentor those who perhaps are and those who are not in those very positive relationships we can turn this thing around. Otherwise we’re in big trouble as a community, as a state, and as a country.
Bert: You talk about mentoring. Women, more than men, are prone to talk amongst themselves. They view discussion as therapeutic. Men, on the other hand, tend not to talk about issues that they have and challenges that they face. They tend to more internally bear those things without discussion. That’s always been a challenge to mentoring men. How do you think we get by some of those challenges and have an effective impact with young married men?
Mr. Hardiman: Well, I think by building real relationships. As I said, I’ve been meeting with someone for well over twenty years. There are different men I meet with. There are accountability partners as well. That helps me to stay on the right track. These are people that I trust. They’re not people that I’ve just met. I may have someone want to sit down and talk about different situations and maybe I shouldn’t trust that individual because I don’t know them. They’ve not proven to me that they’re worthy of my trust. I’m talking about strong relationships that I know care about me and want to see me do well based in God’s word.
One has to be careful. I heard of some advice that was given by a pastor – I just couldn’t believe it! To me it’s not really wisdom and common sense let alone biblically based. So, I think one has to be careful. But typically in church situations – many churches have small groups where you get to know a person first and you get to know and trust that person. It takes some time. It also takes a person who will provide Godly wisdom and Godly advice. That’s the kind of relationship I’m talking about. Obviously, in a home situation you have a father/son situation and that’s great. But you know, father/daughter relationships exist as well. We had a daughter in our home. I used to have dates with her once a week. We would go out and when she was younger we would do different things like bowling and what not. When she was older we’d have dinner and talk about things. There is a place in a daughter’s heart for a true father. That’s important even when she grew older. When my son-in-law came into the picture – before they were married – we started to have times when would meet and sit and talk. That’s important as well. We got to know each other and share some things that I knew were and supported him. So, there are a variety of ways to build that relationship. But I think certainly through the church, small groups, getting to know people – also programs set up where there are those who volunteer to be mentors. There needs to be oversight so that the wrong kind of information isn’t transmitted because that can be very damaging to a marriage.
Bert: You talked about television and some of the TV shows that you wouldn’t watch. I happen to agree that there are some television shows, even in the early hours of the evening, that even Christian adults should not be watching let alone children. Hollywood and the media have put forward this image of a man that is what I call the bumbling idiot. The Ray Ramanos and a lot of the sitcoms about married couples where the men are made to look very foolish and unintelligent. In your opinion, is that damaging to men and marriages in this society?
Mr. Hardiman: Sure. I think sometimes the pendulum swings way too far one way or the other. I like some of the old TV shows and movies where the man was wise and the women didn’t know as much. That was probably not accurate as well. Now, more recently it has swung so that man was an idiot and always needed not only the woman to rescue him but sometimes even the kids to rescue him from being the idiot. Certainly, I think that’s gone way too far. But I think we need to base our image of family life on Biblical principles. I think it’s something that’s much more stable. In our home my wife is a wonderful partner and I’m a partner with her. The Bible talks about being submissive to each other, to counsel each other, to talk to each other, as we move forward together. Yes, there are certain decisions that have to be made at a point. But to run off and be macho and make those without talking to one’s spouse on things that significantly effect the whole family – that’s not living together and instructing each other, and loving each other. Many times we will say “Let’s pray about an issue”. We’ll pray together and let the Lord speak to our hearts and get a sense so that we move together. I think it takes being together and spending time with Him as well. Yes, I think we’re in trouble when we take our image of what family should be from TV or media. I don’t trust them. The writers are going to share what’s popular for the time – It’s a ridiculous standard to live by. Look at it this way – what makes you think that Hollywood, with all of its family breakdown and divorce, is capable of producing a strong healthy standard for families? What in the world would make someone think that? I’m not picking on everyone who lives in Hollywood. Paul Newman just passed away. He loved his wife for years. He was seen as one of the best looking guys but he stuck to that relationship. So, I’m not putting down everyone in Hollywood. But certainly they’re examples of the ridiculous and silliness. We know that it’s not the standard we ought to have. It ought to be based on something that is truth and has lasted throughout the years – and that’s the Word of God.
Bert: You talked about pursuing your wife. That runs parallel to something that is very important to me. You and your wife did an article for Ladies Home Journal a while back. In that article you said that you saw her anger as a method of protecting her vulnerable side. Having recognized that, you decided to pursue her and try to break down those anger barriers by cherishing her.
One of my things is that the role of a husband should be to provide for and to protect his wife and his family. We live in a day when, going back to Hollywood role models, strong men are looked down upon and frowned upon. As a society, we’ve traded that in for this metro-sexual male who is more sensitive and more tolerant of things. The role models that I grew up with were John Wayne, Jack Palance, and the Marlboro Man. Obviously, from what you told me it is important to you to pursue your wife and getting to know her – to protect that vulnerable side of her so that she can express that. Talk to me more about that in terms of providing for and protecting your wife and how that has helped your marriage.
Mr. Hardiman: As I said, I don’t think we can count on Hollywood to provide the right role model for a family or for a man. The strong male that sometimes Hollywood puts forth is also the kind that is like “I’m gonna do what I want to do” or he may smack a woman around. On the other hand we have the one that is nothing but sensitivity – sensitivity is good – but it’s too much. When I talk about pursuing my wife I’m mean pursuing her love and finding out more about her – about what she is. I remember, even at a time when it seemed to be the most unlikely thing – finding out about my wife that there was this delicate side. Delicate was the word. I thought “delicate? That doesn’t seem right”. But she is. There’s a delicate side of vulnerability. There may be anger to protect but it is delicate. But if she knows that I’m protecting her she can relax a bit. And she protects me too. So, we protect each other. Quite frankly, there’s nothing like knowing that you’ve got someone with this kind of relationship. Like the kids say – you got each other’s back. That took taking time to listen to what she’s saying. And that means really listening – not just sitting there – but actively listening.
I’m in politics. As you know there are sometimes debates on issues that are important. When my wife and I would have a debate my energy was on winning the discussion. She said something to me one time that really hit me like a two-by-four. She said, “You’ll do something if you believe it’s right or if you can prove that it’s right. Or maybe you won’t do something if you can prove that it’s wrong. I’ll refrain from doing something if I know that it hurts you.” When she said that it was plain to me that this was a higher level of love that she was expressing. There are many insights that she is able to give so it’s a blessing to be able to listen to her more and not just thinking I’m right because I might be able to win an argument. It’s actually finding out those things that she wants and desires – even the simple things, like “what do you like to do?”
There is a book out called the 5 Love Languages. Excellent book. The concept is that we all have a love tank that needs to be filled up every day. If a person wants to express love to his wife, what that person typically will do is to express that love in the way that they think that person wants based on their own needs. In this book, it speaks of 5 languages of love – physical touch, quality time, giving of gifts, acts of service, and encouraging words. For me, physical touch and encouraging words are at the top of my list and that’s what really feeds me. You get a little from all of those but some are much stronger. So, I’ll want to give my wife encouraging words or physical touch. But for her, it’s acts of service and quality time. This is all talking about pursuing or getting to know your mate. Here’s an example. I might come home after a days work and she’s in the kitchen fixing something. I will walk up, wanting to interrupt her for a nice hug or something like that. I notice that she’ll give me a little hug but her arms are still moving – she’s still concentrating on what she’s making because she’s about doing an act of service. I’m thinking, “Well, wait a minute. I feel a little rejected!” When we found out that we had those different top priority needs as far as love languages – now she’ll give me those encouraging words. She’ll send notes with me to work. If I’m going on a trip I’ll open up my briefcase – I love those! I save them because they mean so much to me. I will do something very simple for her that means so much. I can get her coffee in the morning. It’s an act of service. So what really does it for her? That’s pursuing your wife to find out what really makes her tick – what can you do that will be a blessing to her and not just give her what you want. That’s part of that pursuit – really looking at your wife.
There was a time when Clova wouldn’t talk so much about things. She felt like I wouldn’t listen or that I would argue it away. Now I stop. Even if I don’t necessarily agree, I’ll stop, I’ll listen, I’ll say, “Let me think about that.” Because I’m receiving the message from her, she feels more secure. That has opened up almost a whole new world. I hear her laugh sometimes when, in the past, it was rare that she laughed. Now I hear her laugh coming down the hallway. It just does my heart good. I hear her joking. She was a very serious person when we first got married – she just couldn’t joke. She’s so witty – things have opened up and I think she’s a more fulfilled person because of it. Certainly I am. Now she’s the best friend I have on this earth. She’s my soul mate. She’s my playmate. She has my back and I’ve got hers. Together, we’re pursuing a closer relationship with God and with each other. We’re in a place that, when we first got married, I never knew existed. So, when I say pursuing her it’s not a demanding way and it’s not a short-term thing. It’s a lifetime of getting to know her better. I call it mining for riches. There’s a depth of riches within her that I continue to mine. I think I’ll be doing that until I leave this earth.
